HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

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[Pedro]

Hi, I am new to this forum, I wonder if you could help me:
I have a Seagate 80Gb SATA ST380013AS barracuda, and suddenly it stopped working. Now, everytime I plug the SATA EDIT: the power cable (sorry) to the motherboard, the pc won't even turn on (some short-circuit protection system from the power source, for sure)
Examining the Hard disk PCB (logical board) I have found a component with a suspiciously toasted/cracked look

Here's a foto (the component is signaled in red, you may have to click the pictures to see them in full detail):

HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

Higher resolution HERE

..very near the power cable, as you can see
Unfortunately, and God knows why, I tried to take the screws out with pliers, and *bam*, another stinky microbian SMD met his maker... :P ; in fact, it just disappeared He is (was) near a big squared chip with the ST logo.


Here are some more fotos with that one also signaled (as well as the 1st one. ) :

HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

Higher resolution HERE

HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

Higher resolution HERE

HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

Higher resolution HERE


And so, the inevitable question of course is, does anyone knows what type of components they are? capacitors, resistors, diodes, voltage spike protectors, ... ? and do you know their values as well, so I can weld equivalent ones? Or at least do you know any schematic of this Seagate, because I searched the Net a LOT, and found nothing!
I have to recover my data.
Please, please, PLEASE, help.

Thanks in advance

[comtechoy]

i think capacitor yan.

[Pedro]

i think capacitor yan.

That was fast  but what is a "yan" and to wich of them are you referring, the the bigger near the power cable, or the smalest?

[comtechoy]

pareho pero di ko alam ang value nyan. yung maliit na size parang 0201 or 0402 at yung malaki ay 0805 or 1206. pero di ako sure sa sizes kasi di naman actual nakita ko.
6 sizes ang smd capacitors.
kaya nasabi kong capacitor kasi sa kulay. yan kasing madalas ginagamit na kulay.
wala kasing schematic diagram nilabas ang mga pcb ng hd e.

[Pedro]

You gave me a hardtime trying to identify your language, before translate it in Google Translator, which didn't do a very good job at it.
You talked more in english in our previous comment, why not now?

Anyway, from what I got, you believe they are capacitors, and gave presumable values for each of them (nFarad? pFarad?). Then you said something about the colours and the side of the capacitors, and that the values were not released on the schematics? I don't know.

Thanks anyway

[comtechoy]

i'm sorry I thought you are a filipino or can understand tagalog because of our username Pedro.

by the way, its a capacitor but i dont know the exact value. 0402 or 0603 is not the capacitor value, its the size of capacitor.

smd ceramic capacitors has greyish or brownish body with metallized edges or terminal.

[Pedro]

Ok    I'm called Pedro because I am from Portugal.

Do you happen to know more or less the values that a capacitor in that place has in average?  a range between 10pF - 10 nF, for example?  My goal is to solder an equivalent there, smd or not

Thanks for your reply

[mikeer2002ph]

Pedro, hello there!

Oh, I'm Mikee, a resident hardware guru (recently resurrected and online again thanks to WiMAX of WiTribe)

Well well well.. it seems our resident HDD tech is in the house (comtechoy)

Comtechoy, ayan kasi.. mag ingles nang hindi mahiritan LOL (translation: comtechoy, next time speak in english because some people logging in here are not Filipinos nor speak the vernacular LOL)

Luckily, I dropped by today because I'm feeling a little st. nicholas all of a sudden in the middle of a hot february day

Do I hear anyone needing a spare HDD PCB to cannibalize parts?


anyway, a brief history of why comtechoy made remarks on your post (now considered a segue)

I gave him a couple of HDD circuitboards to play with because he EXACTLY had the same problem you are now encountering way back.

Some SMD capacitors on his Seagate SATA HDD have also gone to solid state heaven and locked up his precious data inside the HDD in binary purgatory.

So he was just teaching you on what may be the problem and some tips on how to get your HDD alive enough to retrieve the data.


going back on topic...

Pedro, if you're currently in manila, you are so in luck! another seagate barracuda 7200.7 40GB hard drive of mine bit the dust (good riddance actually) and hence its time to donate its PCB to charity .. on in this case, to you, so you can cannibalize the smd parts to replace the ones that died on your drive, so you can bring back those tormented files into the light.

The only problem is IF you're not in manila, then I wont be of much help but my next step may be an alternative wherever you are in the planet.

because what ill suggest is:

1. To do a full transplant of the PCB from a dead drive to your affected drive (requires a dead hard drive with EXACTLY the same specs) we'll talk about this upon doing your assignment which is listed below

2. Just nip pieces of SMD stuff (capacitors/resistors) from a dead hard drive


but before we get ahead of ourselves .. here's your assignment

1. take a picture of the front part of the drive (where the label of seagate is)

ill give you your next assignment upon doing this.

hope to hear from you again Pedro


-Mikee-

P.S.

to comtechoy .. need more spare HDD PCB? ill just bring my dead drive on the next EB (eyeball) of ours

[Pedro]

Hi there, nice response

Luckily, I dropped by today because I'm feeling a little st. nicholas all of a sudden in the middle of a hot february day

Lucky me 

Unfortunately I'm nowhere near Manila, but "just" on the other side of the planet...    but at least, as you said, I am on the planet 


As for the foto of the front side of the drive.....   oh dear...  I haven't my camera with me, so I had to use the webcam

HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

Higher resolution here

HDD PCB layout/ Identifying component ?

Higher resolution here

They are no very readable, I know, so tell me if you can't see any particular serial number.  If you are looking for the firmware, it's 3.18

Thanks again.

Best regards,
Pedro

[mikeer2002ph]

Ok Pedro, the firmware version is it!

This is your new assignment (I suggest option 1 since this is the easiest to do, but worse comes to worse .. then option 2 is the only way)

Option 1 (Direct Swap of PCBs from another working drive) - Easiest to do since all you need to do is borrow a working drive and just popping out a set of torx screws

1. acquire another Seagate 80Gb SATA ST380013AS Drive (just borrow the PCB even if its a working drive) - MAKE SURE you have the SAME firmware (3.18) AND config number (the bunch of characters appearing ABOVE the firmware label) .. any serial number will do

2. gently pry out the affected PCB from the working drive, and from your drive, and swap them out.

3. boot on your drive

4. back up your data on an appropriate medium (USB Flash drive/CD-R/DVD-R/USB HDD)

5. turn off the pc, and return the working drive's PCB to the working drive.

In this case at least all your data is safe. Just put your data back on another HDD. Dont forget to thank the individual who lent you the working Seagate 80Gb SATA ST380013AS drive


Option 2 (SMD surgery) - requires a very steady hand, a magnifying glass with stands, surgical tweezers and an SMD reflow (hot air) machine

1. If someone is offering a dead Seagate 80Gb SATA ST380013AS drive (doesnt matter which firmware / config / serial) .. take it. MAKE SURE the PCB is physically intact and has no signs of burn marks / physical abuse

2. Prepare your soldering iron (20w-25w) or if you have an SMD hot-air solder (SMD reflow machine), then thats better .. crank up the temperature to 218C on the control

3. Heat up the caps on the exact locations on the sacrifice PCB as it appears on your affected PCB .. use the magnifying glass for better control

4. when the solder melts, gently take out the caps using the tweezers. BE CAREFUL since the caps are very delicate and one wrong move can cut the small caps in two. Dont mind the orientation (polarity) since as i see on the high-res pics that they are non-polar capacitors (any orientation will do)

5. Put the caps on your PCB by using the tweezers. align the caps so that the caps touch the remaining solder on the PCB. use the magnifying glass for better control

6. Heat up the caps till the solder melts and flows, touching the caps you just placed. make sure they make good contact by looking through the magnifying glass

7. do steps 3 to 6 again on the other affected cap (the one near the ST Chip).

8. post the high-res picture of your 'work of art' before using the drive. We just want to make sure you dont have any shorts which will make things worse.

so this is all for now

hope to hear from you again Pedro

-Mikee-

[Pedro]

7. do steps 3 to 6 again on the other affected cap (the one near the ST Chip).

That will be the tricky part. I've seen grains of sand bigger than that sucker, and if I desolder it with a soldering iron (I don't have the hot air solder), the guy will just stick to the iron tip; gravity hasn't much effect on something that small. Of course, I first have to get one like one I lost, and that's why I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to solder a non SMD capacitor there. Yes, it's too big, but at least has a manageable size. I'm thinking in stick it with glue near the screw, and then solder it's pins to the PCB solder pads.
On the other hand, something as clumsy as that would generate some electronic noise. What do you think?

Anyway, if it is a capacitor (near the big ST chip), then it must be for coupling and so it's not vital, but it can be for other purpose too (and hence, vital); or it can be a resistor, also vital. I tried searching for that chip's datasheet in ST website for those serials printed in the package, and found nothing. I've google those numbers and nothing.

Oh well, 1st I'll try dealing with the capacitor near the power source, if then it works, fine. 

Do you think the TVS may be affected too? at first sight it seems to be nothing wrong with him.

8. post the high-res picture of your 'work of art' before using the drive. We just want to make sure you dont have any shorts which will make things worse.

Oh don't worry, I know something about electronics    but I'll post here the results, of course.

Thanks for your time
Pedro

[mikeer2002ph]

Pedro,

Well the bigger capacitor - the one nearest the SATA power port definitely is of VITAL importance.

It is responsible for powering up your hard drive and for the electronics in the PCB to be engergized.

That other thing near the ST chip is possibly a coupling capacitor.

(funny, your drive and my 250GB 7200.10 looks the same and on my end, i see a capacitor on that location near the ST chip)

the coupling cap is still important for long term stability, but the goal of our exercise is to simply power up the drive, make sure ALL your data CAN BE READ and downloaded.

Then from that point, you can simply ditch the drive, get a new drive where you can put in your data, and chalk everything up to experience.

By the way, Seagate barracudas are quite hardy. If a big cap just like the one on the power port side explodes or burns then it means that there may be a sinister problem with your power supply. Hard drives, like all other parts inside the PC require stable and clean power (12V, 5V and 3.3V on the SATA power rail). Its possible that either one or more of these voltage 'rails' may not be within regulated specs anymore.

Its ideal that after you perform 'surgery' on your drive, to check your power supply's voltages using a digital multimeter / digital voltmeter.

Here's the color combination and the expected voltages

Red = 5V DC (+/- 0.3V) = 4.7V to 5.3V ; ideal 5V
Yellow = 12V DC (+/- 0.3V) = 11.7V to 12.3V; ideal 12V
Orange = 3.3V DV (+/- 0.1V) = 3.2V to 3.4V; ideal 3.3V

if you think your power supply is off within these specs, then it may answer why the cap blew.

[shinn_asuka]

dahil sa temperature nabibigay na ang capacitor na nasa ilalim nang board, o kaya laging naka-SATA mode, ingat sa BIOS settings, baka ma-void ang SATA HDD mo, NCQ is good sa SATA, pero in the longrun, hindi na yata gagana...kaya nga isine-set ko ang BIOS sa IDE mode at a very best jumper settings....

[Justin]

@shinn_asuka
Please edit your post and translate it into English because Pedro isn't a Filipino, he's from Portugal.

Take care and God bless.

[mikeer2002ph]

thanks justin!